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 . 17 (HMR) Hornady Magnum Rimfire
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philip
Junior Member

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2006 :  20:43:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys
Looking to replace .22 with .17 hmr, I have had mixed feed back from the guys in my area reference windage, carcase damage, anyone using .17 at the moment and can offer an advice or share experience of using .17 ? have all relevant info on loads/history,speed etc mixed views from mainly .22 enthusiasts

Cheers

Phil

dannyt
Junior Member

United Kingdom
34 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2006 :  09:02:08  Show Profile  Visit dannyt's Homepage  Reply with Quote
HELLO MATE HAVE USED 17 RF FOR AS LONG AS THEY HAVE BEEN ABOUT THEY ARE THE DOGS NUTS , YES TO EXTRA DAMAGE ON IMPACT BUT THING ABOUT THE 17 IS ITS MORE PRECISION AT YOUR FINGER TIPS , i WOULD OPT FOR A 17 mk TWO got every thig the 17 has but less noise and fuss you lose a bit of range but who wants to kill rabbits and stuff at 200mtrs . the 17 mk 2 is good out to 100 mtrs and more , head shots are the order of the day with the 17 so out goes the damage to the bunnies or hares if you are looking at re sale of the meat . try one of the switch barrel guns so you can keep your 22 as well best of both worlds , a tip for when you get the 17 is to have it re crownd as the factory barrels are a bit rough this will give you a top shooting gun with very little out lay , the windage thing is no harder to cope with than the bullet drop of the 22 , bullets thats down to the gun build your ammo around the gun not the other way around ie find a brand the gun likes and stick to it ps keep your barrel clean this a problem common to all fast shooting rounds , if you let me know were you are i can put you on to a good rifle store close to you they have all the latest cleaning rods and stuff for your 17 , go on take the plundge and change your life forever , best of luck

Shoot first ask questions later
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philip
Junior Member

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2006 :  15:44:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Danny will send E mail with location etc
Cheers

Phil
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Northerner
Senior Member

United Kingdom
109 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2006 :  18:26:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What turns me onto the .17 HMR is the reduced danger of ricochet, so you have more flexibility in enclosed spaces. I have never used one on fox, but the feedback is stick to the smaller stuff, as the tiny 17 grain bullet tends to break up on impact. I have been looking into the .17 Mach 2, which, instead of being a necked down .22WMR, is a necked down .22RF. You lose about 450 fps at the muzzle, but the reduced noise has to be a bonus. Sako do a VERY nice rifle called the Quad, which has interchangeable barrels for .22RF, .22WMR, .17HMR and .17 Mach2. Rifle is synthetic, and can be found for about 420 quid if you shop around. Barrels are around 150 each- nice touch, Sako do not do the dirty and make you buy different mags to fit the ammo; instead you use one mag, and pop in an insert for the .22RF and the mach2. There's also a dedicated scope which has four colour coded settings to match the colour coded barrels, which you just dial to your zero presets and away you go!! I think it's made by Burris, so quality should be fairly good, and comes in 3-9x40.
If anyone has used this combo, please let us know.
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philip
Junior Member

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2006 :  21:19:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve
Thanks for the info,Sako kit seems bee's knees, I use a sweet little single shot CF .22 Hornet for foxing which I find just right for low noise and reasonable range, the .17 hmr seems to fit the bill for the smaller animals which is what I,m looking for is a safe versatile round and one that flies flat, according to the stats the following zero ratings speak for themselves compared to .22 as follows :

bullseye setting at 134 yds would give > 50yds + 1" > 100yds + 1.3 " > 150 yds - 1.2 " the accuracy appears considerable in relation to the .22 its 100% What I'm looking for can't wait to get one. Thanks to all for the info

Phil
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dannyt
Junior Member

United Kingdom
34 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2006 :  08:40:36  Show Profile  Visit dannyt's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Philip
give Richard whitely shop manager at chris potters in Tunbride wells a ring .
he is a top fella and a rifle nut , he's got all the kit and info you need as well as being good on the prices , tell him Danny from Norfolk told you to ring him and iam sure he will look after you very well, best of luck with the new gun i know you will love it , ps on the Fox front the home office will not grant you a permit on your FAC for fox they have withdrawn the 17 for use against foxes , its ok for air marshalls to shoot talabanies on planes though, common sense i think not

Shoot first ask questions later
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Northerner
Senior Member

United Kingdom
109 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2006 :  22:11:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Danny, when did they pull the plug on that one? Kept it quiet. Are talabanies just rag-head rabbits or something far more sinister? More sinister even than air marshalls? I think we should be told!!
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dannyt
Junior Member

United Kingdom
34 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2006 :  07:21:16  Show Profile  Visit dannyt's Homepage  Reply with Quote
THEY PULLED THE PLUG ON FOXES FOR THE 17 LAST YEAR , BASICLY YOU CAN NOT HAVE FOX ON YOUR FAC FOR USE WITH 17, AS I AM SURE YOU KNOW FOX IS NOT CLASSED AS VERMIN IN THE EYES OF THE LAW IT HAS ITS OWN STATUS UNDER FIRE ARMS LAW AND NEEDS TO BE ADDED TO YOUR FAC FOR USES FOR THE DIFFERING FIREARMS YOU WISH TO HUNT FOXES WITH . THE REF TO TALABANIES IS TERRORISTS ON AIR PLANES , A COUPLE OF MY MATES HAVE A MILIATARY BACK GROUND AND DO A LOT OF FIREARMS TRAINING FOR DIFFERING PARTIES THIS INCLUDES AIR COPS (AIR MARSHALLS ) AND THE UK PLOD MOSTLY BOLT GUNS AND SECTION 5 FIREARMS TRAINING , BUT THEY ALSO DO CATER FOR JOE PUBLIC

Shoot first ask questions later

Edited by - dannyt on 01 Feb 2006 15:48:20
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Bubblefish777
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2006 :  15:15:28  Show Profile  Click to see Bubblefish777's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
OK Guys.... Quick update for You.

I own a Sako Quad with the .17Mach2 , .17HMR and .22LR barrels. No .22 WMR though. I also own the Quad Burris Sight.

Ok well first things first. The sight was 290 and was certainly NOT worth it. The little multicoloured turret is dial in like a normal scope then using a kew (disk with a pin affair) you simply turn the coloured wheel to line up with the Zero's. There's also a bunch of sad stickers to stick on the gun giving you data like estimated lift and drop ranges for various kinds of ammo. However the build quality blows as well. I've just sent mine back as after having it for a week something has happened in the optics where it won't focus any more.

Now for the gun. The SAKO .22 with moderator is very quiet and very very accurate. In fact with all the rounds and barrels it's very very accurate. At 100m I can put 5 shot groups almost on top of each other...certainly all touching each other. It's fantastically accurate. BUT, .22 feeding is a nighmare. The only thing that feeds through cleanly is .22 Remington subsonic. The ELEY crap is so coated in wax it always tugs and jams up. Obviously the high velocity stuff like Stingers, Velocitors, Mini-Mag etc feed great but then the whip-crack downrange of the round negates the moderator. So in Subsonic terms only go for the Remington stuff.

Now the Mach2 round. This is a fabulous little round....BUT it has 2 HUUUGE drawbacks. It is incredibly noisy (which scares the hell out of the bunnies so unlike the .22 Subsonic.....one shot and everything scatters at night when you go lamping)So that's one drawback. The other is for every 3 bunnies you shoot, at least 1 will run away....YES after you get a hit. The .22 MACH2 does not come in HP so goes straight through the Bunny and it then runs off somewhere to die. Not so good.

The .17 HMR is the NUTS. Comes in HP and when you hit a bunny there's no doubt. It goes flying and there's no running away....drawback is 12 a box. Unless like me you buy it in 1000 bricks from the USA when I'm on business there and it costs the same in dollars (actually I get 1000 for $190 or 80 or 4 for 50....yeah I know...we get screwed in the UK :( )

However how does this all translate ? Well my brother and I went out on a lovely moonless night in October with a Ruger .22 and moderator, 25 rounds clips and we did 130+ bunnies in just over 3 hours.

Went out with the SAKO a week later (Bolt Action) and moderator and got 60+
Went with the Mach 2 and HMR and got about 20-30 with each.

So YES the SAKO is accurate but it's much slower and when you see 4 bunnies together once you get the first 2 their death throes normally trigger the other 2 to run. So Ruger wins here. As for .17 .... well it's accurate as hell but the noise makes for a very bunny scarce night of lamping. Your choice....I guess it's how the mood takes you.

Ohhhh.... 1 last thing.... someone mentioned you don't need to change the magazine for the SAKO Quad ? just pop in an inset ? Nope... 'Fraid not. There are 2 magazines the same size. but 1 holds the .22 and Mach2 and 1 holds the .17HMR and .22WMR (The free magazine holds 5 shots)
Of course the good news is you can then buy another 2 magazines in 9 and 10 round shot capacity.... 9 shot cap for .22 and .17Mach2 and 10 shot for .17HMR and WMR (Why 9 and 10 shot ???? No idea at all really annoying though as ammo is sold in 50's and hundreds and now we have a 9 shot magazine ?! ... go figure as they say.)

Lastly I noted someone said that you can't shoot Fox with a .17 round ??? Incorrect. You can but it needs to be .17 Remmington Centrefire. Now most people have never seen or heard of this calibre so I'll simply give you the government link and tell you to look at the bottom of page 82 of 212 CHP 13. http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-and-publications/publication/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance.pdf?view=Binary
Don't get me wrong though....it's not a great gun as it eats the barrrels (replace barrel every 2000ish rounds) however for safe shooting it's ideal. The .17 does the job or destroys itself on the first object it comes in contact with. Speed of the round by the way is over 4000ft/sec. It's an incredible foxing tool.

Edited by - Bubblefish777 on 24 Nov 2006 22:45:02
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Paul W
Senior Member

United Kingdom
147 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2006 :  17:01:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
17RF is an exellent round but if you intend selling or eating your bunnies stick with the .22RF.The 17RF, even with a head shot sends fragments throughout the body of the rabbit.I don't own one but know several people who do,them and my mate who's a gamedealer have said the same thing regarding the fragments.
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Bubblefish777
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2006 :  22:28:10  Show Profile  Click to see Bubblefish777's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul W

17RF is an exellent round but if you intend selling or eating your bunnies stick with the .22RF.The 17RF, even with a head shot sends fragments throughout the body of the rabbit.I don't own one but know several people who do,them and my mate who's a gamedealer have said the same thing regarding the fragments.



??? There are several .17 Rimfire rounds. There's also variations on the rounds themselves.
There is a .17Mach2 round, a .17HMR round and a .17Remmington round.
The First 2 are Rimfire and the last is Centrefire. They come in HP (Hollowpoint) GP (General Purpose), SP (Special Purpose) and S (Solid). The expanding rounds (HP) do fragment and lead to the problem you're talking about however it's all about what you're trying to do. Ammunition is as varied as the role and effect you're trying to achieve. The problem we have in the UK is we generally don't understand this and assume a bullet is a bullet. If you want to eat your kill use SP or GP if you want to ensure a kill shot everytime use HP. If you want to target shoot use Solid. If you want to put a fox down use GP. Remember there are 2 things about the round that is used to kill. Destruction of a vital organ (lungs, Heart etc.) This will cause death, immediate in these organs. The other effect is Hydraulic shock. The pressure wave created as the round passes through tissue basically destroys arteries and delicate organs and the effect is slower. This is why people who have been hit by High Velocity sniper rounds in non vital places like limbs and legs still die...the hydraulic shock caused by the energy imparted to them is massive. Energy transfer is what you aim to achieve. Hence when a .17Mach2 round zips through a rabbit if it does not hit anything vital and the bullet doesn't expand or deform sufficiently (mushrooming) and therefore imparts energy quickly the bunny runs off....likely to die minutes later of blood loss. However if you use GP, HP rounds from .17HMR.... death is almost instantaneous.
Look here and you can see the vaiation on offer.
http://www.22ammo.com/hmr17_17mk11.html
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ryn123
Starting Member

United Kingdom
1 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2007 :  18:36:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hi i,m quite new to computers i,d sooner be out shooting but i need a little help i,m trying to find some 17hmr bullets round the lancashire area my shop cant keep them in and i have to travle miles for them does anybody know of a shop
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tyler.a
Starting Member

United Kingdom
8 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2008 :  18:54:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
please can anyone help?, for the last 12 yrs I have proudly been employed as a Royal Marines Commando and now the time has come to commit myself to my family and therefore will be changing my "employment", I have an agri background and have my heart set on pest control, my research thus far has been frustrating to say the least, surely most land owners, gamekeepers etc already have someone "on the case" any advice on this matter would be greatly received!, thanks for posting the info on .17 bubblefish - think I shall go the SAKO quad way when have FAC!
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